Joly doesn’t have ‘any form of information’ on MPs targeted in Chinese interference campaign

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OTTAWA — Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly said Tuesday that she has no idea about the names of the 11 MPs allegedly targeted by the Chinese government during the 2019 general election.

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Testifying before the Commons procedure and affairs committee, Joly and Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Dominic LeBlanc were grilled by committee member and Conservative MP Michael Cooper on whether they’d been briefed earlier this year on the allegations of Chinese interference, to which LeBlanc said he had.

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“It’s not frequent, but it’s certainly something I’d be updated on by security and intelligence officials in the government,” he said.

Joly said that she had not been briefed, telling committee members that she, like Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, had no advance knowledge of the allegations.

When asked by Cooper to elaborate on what he learned and when, LeBlanc said he’s unable to discuss issues of national security — referring Cooper to previous statements given by the prime minister.

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When asked by Cooper to give a “yes” or “no” answer to the question of whether Beijing interfered with either the 2019 or 2021 elections, LeBlanc demurred — repeating previous statements that China “regularly attempts to interfere in various aspects of Canadian society,” and that elections are no exception.

“The experts that are empowered to do this work have confirmed that none of these attempts to interfere have constituted, in any way, something that would have an adverse effect on the election results and the election outcome,” LeBlanc said.

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Cooper accused LeBlanc of “hiding behind national security” in spite of advice from CSIS that transparent policy is key top rooting out foreign interference.

“We haven’t seen anything of transparency in the way of answers to some very straightforward questions here today,” Cooper said, referring to Joly’s claims that she had no prior knowledge of the interference allegations.

Cooper referenced a foreign intelligence briefing dated Feb. 21, 2020 describing an “effective interference network” and investigations into “activities linked to the Canadian federal election in 2019” that supposedly reveal an “active foreign interference network” operated by the Chinese government.

How can the minister claim that she doesn’t know, that she has no knowledge

Michael Cooper

“How can the minister claim that she doesn’t know, that she has no knowledge,” Cooper said.

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“It’s simply not credible.”

In response, Joly said all Canadians and all parties have a “shared interest” in tackling foreign interference.

“We have national security agencies that can investigate and afterwards, as a country based on the rule-of-law, that there can be prosecution,” she said.

“Our job is to make sure that that work is being done.”

Cooper followed up by asking the ministers to identify politicians and riding association officials who, according to CSIS documents, were targeted by foreign agents.

LeBlanc responded by accusing Cooper of engaging in political theatrics, and pressuring them for “answers that don’t exist.”

Last month, Canada’s Chief Electoral Officer Stéphane Perrault told committee members he wasn’t aware of the allegations until reading reports first published by Global News.

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Global’s reporting alleged the PMO was warned nearly a year ago that Beijing allegedly provided money to as many as 11 candidates in the 2019 federal election — despite Trudeau telling reporters the first he’d heard of it was on the news.

Committee member Rachel Blaney said the allegations have struck a great deal of distrust in the system.

“Creating a sense of assurance that the systems do work is very important, and I would like to see a little bit more of that,” she said, demanding to know the government’s rationale for not releasing the names of the 11 MP targeted by China.

In response, Joly said the government — including the PMO, national security advisers and her office — have no information on who they are.

“Of course we take very seriously this media story, but at the same time I’m giving you, under oath, the information that I have — which is, I don’t have any form of information on this,” she said.

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Questions were also raised in the House over the PM’s claims of ignorance, with Bloc Québécois MP Alain Therrien pointing out during question period last month that the PM had indeed discussed the issue with Chinese President Xi Jinping during a conversation at October’s G20 summit in Indonesia.

LeBlanc assured the committee that Canada’s elections are both free and fair.

“The non-partisan national security experts who oversee threats to elections are confident in the results of these elections,” he said.

Keeping elections safe, he said, involves what he described as a “wide range of innovative measures” to address threats to Canada’s sovereignty, including promoting digital media literacy, improving threat detection processes and non-partisan supervision of election security.

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“Russia has long used disinformation and propaganda to advance its objectives,” Joly said.

“That is well known, as are the Kremlin’s tactics in creating polarization narratives aimed at undermining trust and social cohesion in the West.”

As for meddling by the Chinese government, Joly said Beijing is growing increasingly adept at spreading lies online to influence both Canadians and others around the world.

“Beijing can quickly saturate social media platforms with messaging, but it is also nimble enough to micro-target anglophone, francophone and Chinese-speaking audiences in Canada,” she said.

“China is considered by some to be best able to spread its influence online, now that social media companies have curtailed Russian-aligned accounts and activities in the wake of the invasion of Ukraine.”

Joly said she raised the matter with Chinese counterparts on the margins of the October G20 summit, asserting that Canada wouldn’t stand for interference in any form.

• Email: bpassifiume@postmedia.com | Twitter: bryanpassifiume